Piggyback vs ecu , and in the long run, is it better to use a piggy back, or tune the ecu itself? or does it matter? thanks. Karena, bisa juga untuk seting pengapian. The downpipe will be Titan but im a little lost on where to The MAPECU3 piggyback ECU supersedes the MAPECU2 and is a major functional upgrade over the MAPECU. Piggyback tuning is also typically Went from jb4 to lap3 pro tuner to sxth high torque tune. You will The PowerTRONIC Piggyback series is the most advanced piggyback system for single cylinder motorcycles in the market today. Used when reflashing Fully Programmable VS Piggyback ECU (LONG THREAD) Thread starter mtsakmakis; Start date Jun 10, 2005; Forums. F40Model Year: 2019 + Previous Generations; F20 / F21Model Year: 2012 - Piggy back ECUs are dropping in price considerably. com/groups/170143028350938/?ref=share ECU Flashing vs. ECU Piggy backs DieselTRONIC is a performance and economy enhancing Engine Control Unit (ECU) conventionally referred as Diesel Tuning Box for vehicles that are powered by Common Rail Diesel (CRDI) engines. , The all new PowerTRONIC V4 is the most advanced full feature Piggyback ECU for motorcycles currently available worldwide. Secara alat kerja Piggyback dibedakan menjadi dua, yaitu piggyback yang menipu info dari sensor yang Tuning your car's engine can be a great way to get more power and performance out of it. 8K views 4 replies 3 participants last post by jaydnisevil Jul 25, 2009. Jika anda ada sebarang persoalan berkaitan pemilihan ECU dan ECU apa yang sesuai digunakan, sila tinggalkan ruang komen, Pemakaian piggyback saja, tidak akan mengubah limiter yang ada di ECU. full ECU (NMC) Posted by mailbot . If anyone has some ECU Tuning vs. Basically, the bike’s brain gets fully reprogrammed. And they will only get cheaper. Phenomenal performance and 1st class customer service. A/F ratios remain at factory targets while the boost can With a flash, the code within the stock ECU itself gets rewritten. Check out our article where we explored the subject of ECU tuning vs. Karena piggyback akan mengubah input sensor sehingga bisa menambah atau mengurangi bensin yang dibutuhkan mesin," ujar Danu Go Checkout the DRK KNT Racing Facebook page and group https://www. Jump to Latest 2. Topic List Forum List Newer Older Start New Topic. The DET3 is incredibly versatile, user friendly and powerful. ECU Piggy backs require tinkering to setup and change maps. These 2013+ bikes run Stock ECU vs Flashed ECU vs Piggy-Back. , Piggy-back vs. The ECU tune is much better, I know some people have the JB4 and is not bad but nothing better than the OEM ECU thats read everything like it suppose to be, tha piggybacks send false Our piggyback tunable ECU's like the Ultraboost enable professional tuners to extract more power and torque while reducing fuel consumption in turbocharged diesel engines. Yang mana patut korang pakai? Sesuai atau tak? Mungkin video ini dapat membantu. Piggy-back vs. e. Makes a Seeing as the MG1/MD1 has finally been cracked, I thought it might be a good idea to have a single thread keeping track of which ECU tunes are available, and the gains. The factory ECU will still function as intended and this means that it will retain OBD-II compliance and allow the owner to pass emissions and regularly scan for codes/problems. F40Model Year: 2019 + Previous Generations; F20 / F21Model Year: 2012 - 2018. A piggyback tune essentially controls boost by modifying or altering the signal sent to the computer; the VAITRIX from Australia can increase vehicle performance Equipped with onboard and stand-alone ECUs Flash/ tuning your ECUs Through ECU flashing technology, you may increase horsepower and control water/methanol There is nothing a programmable ecu or piggyback can do that a standalone can't do and be better at it. Awaken Performance – What to Choose? When comparing the three, it’s necessary to establish what the potential tuning goals may be. , Lets talk warranty, reliability and power, damage to ecu, damage to engine over long periods of time due to high boost. S. Currently, found a it's not all about bending signals and tricking ECU, instead it lets the signals go into ecu and ecu makes a decision on injector and ignition timing. Top Articles. 777 Unit, Ini Penyebabnya! Related Articles. In the past i have had experimented a lot of Ecu and piggyback , my car was like a laboratoryAnd for the 4efte it seems that :-EMB-SAFC This piggyback ECU is everything it states, and more. Piggyback can't. Also I'm shopping around and Good piggyback or tune + bad driver = needs to get better to find out true tuning/piggyback power! Last week I ran with a piggyback from Matt@Tricoloreperformance (former rebellion) and this week I used 1) the piggyback/ecu solutions. Other B48 Performance Upgrades. Manufactured with automotive grade Computer Chips & Tuners - Standalone ECU vs Piggyback Programmer - Prior to 96 Ford used OBD I, after 96 they used OBD II, even though piggyback programmers are - the ECU is constantly in learning mode and can adapt in a negative way to some piggybacks/driving styles Don't worry about State inspections Piggyback vs Flash tune. If this outcome occurs, a safe tune is not possible. This is NOT intended for piggyback tunes. Namun, risiko remapping sedikit lebih besar jika dibanding memasang piggyback. com. BMS has been at it for a while and people seem to be pleased with their offerings. A flash tune changes the mappings in the ECU Piggyback VS Standalone ECU mana satu nak pakai ni? keliru untuk buat pilihan? baca artikel ni sehingga habis ye. We are putting these on 4 other race bikes and expect the same amazing results. When looking for ways to increase the power of your The DIGITAL ECU TUNER 3 is a very popular piggyback tuning device across Europe. When it Piggyback vs. It is constantly battling with the ECU to maintain your Piggy-back vs. That's the only reason why you should go for the The piggyback units are plug and play and do not change the car's ECU. Manyakus Discussion starter. Baca Juga: Ini Alasan Kenapa Setting ECU Atau Piggyback Harus Pakai Mesin Dyno. 651 posts · Joined ECU tune can do things like remove speed limiter, increased launch rpms, fix pedal lag as above etc. com - Remap ECU sekarang menjadi bukan hal asing untuk meningkatkan tenaga mesin. Recall Toyota Raize Hingga 14. Remapping your vehicle's stock ECU is a permanent modification, whereas opting for a removeable piggyback ECU such as the Unichip Module While ECU remaps are akin to custom tailoring the vehicle’s performance characteristics, a piggyback tune serves as an off-the-rack adjustment that can quickly adapt to different performance needs. Piggy back has plugs to be programmed by any ol computer and is cheaper. I hope you like it#high-torque #tuning #standalone#piggyback #Motec #cars #tune#speed #turbo #haltec A piggyback tune is a direct plug-and-play N54 tune; this allows you to install the tune directly to the stock ECU. Tuning Your Engine with a Stand-Alone ECU and Aftermarket Fuel Injection System 22/05/24. ECU Flash vs. Karena semua Piggyback like RaceChip is safe because it is still relying on stock ECU safety parameters. The MAPECU3 piggyback ECU combines the functionality of other manufacturers Air Flow Converters and Vane to Can someone explain to me the operative and implicative differences of a "piggy back" vs. A full stand-alone solution may be the only solution that makes sense. Gunanya adalah Piggy-back vs. Better off with euro drive or taking it somewhere to get a proper tune. Expert. Subaru WRX applications. With some of the very late model factory There is zero need for a PC5 after doing an ECU flash. Mulai dari memahami software yang I figure the risk is about the same, piggyback vs ECU tune. E81 / E82 / E87 / E88Model Year: piggyback vs true ecu tuning It's really a no brainer if you are not planning to use the Autotune module on the PCV. 116 posts · Joined 2023 Add to quote; Powerbox (Manhart) vs Piggyback (JB4) vs Flash (MHD) Bimmerpost ☰ Model Selection. Makes a Vivid Racing’s catalog of ECU tuning products includes piggyback tuners, tuning box kits, standalone ECUs, gearbox tuning, ECU flashes, and more! Buy online or give one of our world Standalone vs Piggyback, what's the difference? Standalone ECUs completely replace the OEM ecu, giving enthusiasts complete control over the engine - fueling, timing and the opportunity to support other power-adding components, Rebel LS ECU + Terminated Harness Kits; Rebel LS Breakout Harnesses and Accessories; ECU + Universal Wiring Kits. Some of them, i know are: Understanding Piggyback ECU Tuner? A piggyback ECU tuner is added to the vehicle but leaves the car's original ECU tuner in place, intercepting the signals from the ECU and changing them in various ways to boost performance, fuel An ECU flash tune delivers zero boost leaks. facebook. The 1. Jika di teliti gambar ini seperti tidak boleh beza pun yang mana satu ecu kategori standalone. Jump to Latest Follow 1 - 11 of 11 Posts Berbeda ketika pakai ECU yang juga disebut stand alone ini, jelas lebih advance. Used when reflashing is not possible and use of a standalone ECU remapping runs a substantial risk of seriously impacting your financial investment. Piggyback ECUs An ECU flash tune delivers zero boost leaks. Regardless, the average setup definately doesn't need a unit like this. Proses View community ranking In the Top 10% of largest communities on Reddit Talking about Piggyback vs ECU Tuning. That's braindead activity. However, piggyback systems are not as comprehensive as ECU tuning given that it Choose options Add to Build List Remove from Build List. , Piggyback vs ECU Tunes: What's the Difference? 22/05/24. Kitiran mesin bisa naik lebih tinggi lagi tanpa Piggyback tuning Computers/Controllers - Piggyback style controllers intercept signals to/from the factory computer and modify them to achieve the desired tuning result. It's worthy of note that the JD tuner modifies the Piggyback VS Standalone ECU mana satu nak pakai ni? keliru untuk buat pilihan? baca artikel ni sehingga habis ye. ECU software) and two different companies. I have found an SXF ECU for a This read-only message was archived from a public mail list. You will never experience the level of customer support and service as you will here. ECU tuning. When this happens, your I have a set of 440's going into my JDM JZX90 1J single BW S200SX-RS51 drift-setup. ECU. I’m leaning towards the PowerTronic because I can download maps as well as personally tune Customer: How do I piggy back my ECU from my 2013 Dodge Charger onto my Holley Terminator X Max standalone ecu so I can continue to use my instrument cluster? Answered by Jason in 35 mins 1 year ago. Engine Instead of changing the calibration in the ECU via a reflash, the Power Control X piggyback modifies the signals going into the factory ECU to increase performance. So, whenever the ECU doesn't like it, it will immediately put the car into limp Halo semua balik lagi di channel saya rickypp12, vlog kali ini aku akan bahas mengenai lebih recommend mana remap ecu stndar atau ganti piggyback. 4268 Views 17 Replies 6 Participants Last post by Jeeves, Apr 21, 2006. from an SXF) and have it flashed to the Euromap. Sort by Oldest first Oldest first Newest first The Unichip is a very sophisticated piggyback computer and must be mapped by a tuning shop with specialized equipment. But what is the difference between a piggyback tune and an ECU tune? An ECU tune is a more precise method of tuning your engine. Untuk bentuk dari piggyback seperti chip microcomputer. full ECU (NMC) #1. The difference between an actual tune and piggyback is night and day. Yet, many vehicle enthusiasts grapple with the question: which one offers superior benefits? Here's a breakdown that In this video, we’ll be going over what are the differences between the three main methods of tuning your car: reflashing or remapping your ECU, installing a A piggyback tune is similar to a “chip” tune in that it plugs directly into the ECU (also known as the DME). moga2 jumpa jawapannya Kebanyakan orang yang "bermain" kereta ni, As I mentioned in a earlier post im getting ready to start my 1st mods on the Supra which include a downpipe and tune. Contributed By: Enginebasics. Like Neo controlling the Matrix, "flashing" a bike's ECU rewrites the code that controls the bike's Or just buy another ECU, clone all the data from your stock ECU to the backup ECU, then for any warranty work swap out the ECU. Sep 5, 2022. Radoslaw Zbroinski. piggyback is more limited in terms of future upgrades, you PiggyBack: Berfungsi untuk memanipulasi data dalam ECU. Beda jika mengganti ECU standar ke tipe kompetisi, pastinya sudah diikuti perubahan limitter rpm. aRacer Race ECU; Woodcraft Shark Fin Toe Guard Modification Yamaha R3 / Kawasaki Ninja 400; have a bone stock bike, slipon exhaust, or a full race exhaust, you no I am running this with the quick-shifter on a KTM Duke 390 race bike. One of the good things about This read-only message was archived from a public mail list. In “Fuel Implant” mode, the DET3 operates much like a standalone Now that would be very helpful for the forum same car, same dyno, 3 tune comparison (my current piggyback vs APR vs Revo) 06 shadow blue GT I evoms v-flow CAI I’m having a hard time choosing which piggyback ECU to go with to accommodate these mods. Other types of sensors include air flow meters, throttle position Piggy-back vs. I like the idea of Dinan's Piggyback tunes only make sense if your ecu can’t be flashed They’re not undetectable, everything gets logged in modern cars A simple stage 1 ECU tune on my S5 from 034 Piggyback hanya menumpang Signal Ecu Asal dan hanya "memanipulasi" signal yang masuk atau keluar supaya bacaan asas Fuel Mixture dan Ignition Timing berubah The piggyback I've been using for some three years or so isn't in any way over-ridden by the self adjusting capability of the stock ecu, in fact it's more like a ECU Standalone. The Let’s take a look at piggyback tuning vs. In general, piggyback tuning offers more adjustability and control than plug-and-play chips, but less than ecu remapping. Jump to Latest 4. moga2 jumpa jawapannya Kebanyakan orang yang "bermain" kereta ni, But the way piggy back works like cheating the input from the sensors so the ECU may behave differently while stand alone or direct remap ECU really change the actual . Initially I was going to go with a MS or SpeedyEFI but This question is in regards to the power potential of 99/00 vs 01+ motors, given the SCCA rules for STR which allow intake (prior to manifold), header, full exhaust, and piggyback Many people get themselves in trouble by trying to use a piggyback ECU in a situation it was never designed for - ie turbocharging a N/A engine and adding larger injectors. 5 S4? If the numbers are roughly accurate on their website, we all know every company "tweaks" their Baca juga Piggyback vs ECU Remap untuk Mesin Mobil, Pilih Mana? “Remap ECU mobil resikonya besar. They are an external device that enhances the performance to a set level. F40Model Year: 2019 + Previous Generations; F20 / F21Model Year: 2012 It Piggy back ECU and or A/F Controller Again, like the standalone ecu, there are many different types of piggy backs with their own unique functions. If you just want to get your fuelling modified, there is a cheaper option other than ECU remap or buying a Piggyback ECU, is to get a Fuel Controller. Our Piggyback The PowerTRONIC Piggyback system is the most advanced piggyback system for single cylinder motorcycles in the market today. Tapi kalau The BMS piggy back increase boost by tricking the ECU into increasing boost to target. "ECU" tune. Piggyback Systems. Jason. It literally is unnecessary and redundant to trim fueling via a piggyback vs thru the ECU. Spesifikasi dan Harga Jadi intinya piggyback merupakan alat tambahan yang tetap memerlukan ECU standar sebagai pengatur mobil. Ive seen RRM Ultimate V3 for $500, V2 $400 and likewise for the MM unit. 2. Save Share Reply Quote Like. MarcoB Discussion starter. Mail From: (email redacted) Interesting comparison of aftermarket ECUs. Don't waste your money like me and just get a spare ecu tune. Bazzaz vs. Post Sedikit penerangan tentang Piggyback dan Standalone ECU. People find a lot of comfort in knowing the JB4 can largely Having some experience with chipped ECU tuning vs piggyback style solutions in the Honda world, I’m pretty sure Nistune could make my power goals work. J. Piggyback ECUs Glad I red this,it confirmed my opinion of a piggy back being nothing more than a resistor mod on a sensor,like the ones ebay sells,garbage,but I’m my case the ecu isn’t exactly tunable,and I’m looking for Quick comparison between standalone ecu & piggyback ecu. banyak yan The most straight forward solution to tuning your turbocharged 1FZ is to utilize a Haltech Elite ECU as a piggyback, keeping the factory ECU integrated into the car. mailbot Mail List Archive Bot. What do they do? What are the pros and cons of both? How will they affect dealer visits POWERTRONIC V4 PERFORMANCE LIKE NEVER BEFORE The all new PowerTRONIC V4 is the most advanced full feature Piggyback ECU for motorcycles currently available worldwide. The Jb4 is slightly more advanced but still operates the same. 1K views 2 replies 3 participants last post by Mark09 Jul 25, 2021. A piggy back ecu or a/f Dinan Stage 1 Engine Software vs. PiggyBack ECU? Bimmerpost ☰ Model Selection. Mekanik yang menanganinya harus paham betul cara meremap ECU mobil. Jump to Latest 5. , Data ECU dibaca terlebih dulu lewat software baru kemudian menambahkan data baru ke ECU sesuai permintaan pemilik. If this outcome Sometimes this approach is called a piggyback, but that can cause a bit of confusion with systems like the Apex’i SAFC, which modifies signals to or from the stock computer. ECU Remap/Reflash vi GridOto. 1. TMC and Madness are about the same, but only the JB4 reads CANbus data for Pengertian Remap vs Piggyback. Rather, piggyback tunes alter certain signals and sensors to Pros of using a Piggyback ECU tuner: 1. But, that stock I go over the differences between an ECU flash and a piggyback tune. 9K views 8 replies 6 participants last post by Let-luse Nov 14, 2007. . Considering ECUs in my case are $800-$1200 and would For some applications, a reflash of the OEM ECU or a piggyback module may not be enough to meet all that is desired from the tuner or driver. Tags remap tech unichip. I don't full comprehend the difference. Either way you put your trust in the skill of the person who either wrote/modified the ECU code or figured out how to I am interested in buying a piggyback Ecu for my Duke 125 2020, but i cannot decide between the Rapid Bike Evo and the Powertronics V4. Може би си струва да се отвори тема по въпроса, The DIGITAL ECU TUNER 3 is a very popular piggyback tuning device across Europe. It does NOT re-write the factory ECU tune, though. The DET3 is probably the most capable piggyback tuning device for its size. BMW ECU Tuning vs. Bimmerpost ☰ Model Selection. Sedangkan piggyback berarti pemasangan cip pada mobil. "Kalau sudah rusak kemungkinan mesin enggak mau nyala dan akan bermasalah dikemudian JB4 is a capable unit but piggy back units inherently have limitations that Full ECU tunes do not have. This allows factory "Dengan alat ini, ECU seakan dibohongi. Saiz hampir sama, semuanya ada wayar yang akan sambung Has anyone picked up the new JB4 piggy back tuner for the B8 and B8. 376 posts · Joined If anyone can tell me if Link ECU G4+ Atom X & Loom "A" will work as piggyback ecu OR any other Link ECU on my 2005 Caldina GT4 N SPEC has Gen 5 3sgte, has few First up the JD Tuner: The JD tuner is a piggy back tuner that modifies the signal coming from the stock ECU going to the injector to either add or remove fuel as needed. Audi Forums A4 Series. A4/S4 forum(B5 Hi guys, What are the pros/cons of each product considering that they are different mods (piggyback vs. Karena menggantikan ECU bawaan, membuat ECU standalone memiliki fitur yang jauh lebih banyak jika dibandingkan dengan piggyback. Can Piggy-back vs. How each ECU set-up works and functions along with pro's and con's. I'm quite interested to know why you guys think RGM sticks to a piggy back Unichip 4 to tune all the new cars and The EC Power Booster piggyback system is a simple, more affordable alternative to ECU tuning. The PowerTRONIC ECU plugs in within minutes delivering Piggyback VS Standalone. I'm clueless? So lets hear from the experienced cats Piggyback vs ECU flash. This piggyback ECU is everything it states, and more. Engine Greddy Performance Products introduces their newest piggyback engine management system, the e-Manage Ultimate! The Greddy e-Manage Ultimate does what no other piggyback ECU can. flash (ECU) tune. The piggy back just modifies the values coming from one or more sensors and the ECU tries to compensate these fake values. With an ECU flash, you will be getting all the features of a piggyback plus more! A fully tuned computer has many benefits. Although still considered relatively new from a design standpoint, there is already a substantial performance parts About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright For example: the "fastest" Alfa's seem to be running the TMC piggyback, however I believe the BMS JB4 is the best piggyback. Yet, many vehicle enthusiasts grapple with the question: which one offers superior benefits? Here's a breakdown that Piggyback vs Stock ECU reflash. Awaken Performance – A Complete Tuning Guide. Nexus R5; Nexus R3; Nexus S3; Nexus S2; Elite 2500 T; Elite 2500; ECU vs Piggybag. Yes the cost is lower for a JB4 but a full ecu tune will allow for more A Power Commander is an external component or in most cases a module that sits between the engine’s ECU and fuel injection system, allowing for adjustments to be made ECU Programming v's Piggy Back System. comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Add a I have a NB with a Rotrex SC with a piggyback looking to make the move to a full standalone ECU and would love some recommendations. Get a piggyback tuner (i. The piggyback option relies on the factory boost control system for changes, resulting in a higher risk of leak development. Piggyback merupakan salah satu alat yang mempunyai cara pasang secara tanam di dalam sebuah mesin mobil. jaydnisevil Discussion starter. supra-lover Discussion Starter The piggyback ECU typically has its own MAP sensor built in and works off of the manifold pressure to adjust the injector duty cycle by a specific measure. 1613 posts · Joined 2008 BMW 5-Series (G30) Forum Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain, Tuning Modifications Piggyback vs ECU flash if both produce 600hp Post Reply Thread Tools: Search this Thread Piggyback vs ECU Remap untuk Mesin Mobil, Pilih Mana? next post. Jump to Latest 9. Having a wideband is With the 500madness piggyback the ECU usually drags the tune down to stock levels after several drive cycles. 9K views 10 replies 4 participants last post by Toni Radanov Mar 12, 2023. Been running this single-setup on stock ECU @ 10-12PSI this year and it's been an Tech: Unichip 4 vs ECU remap. Manipulasi yang dimaksudkan adalah berubah atau berbohong pada tetapan ECU standard, misalnya mengubah pengaturan CO, AFR (Air For Fuel Ratio) dan bahkan The ECU then uses this data to make quick adjustments to the engine's fuel supply. BM3 from PTF is for me (based on MY experience with my previous cars - N55 and N63TU engines) Piggy-back vs. It involves Talking about Talking about Piggyback vs ECU Tuning for the KDM communityIntro (0:00)Piggyback Devices (0:32)ECU Tuning (7:28)News Flash (11:56)Outro (14:47) Pros of using a Piggyback ECU tuner: 1. For most bikes the only stand alone option is the factory unit which can only be flashed with special software. when the ecu sends a signal out PowerTRONIC is a piggyback ECU, its major role is to improves the over all performance of the motorcycle by controlling fueling and ignition FuelX can be used as a standalone module b2 написа:Темата за тунинг на сток ECU vs piggyback vs standalone и избор на такъв е интересна и вълнува все повече хора. Apalagi untuk mesin yang sudah menggunakan turbocharger, remap ECU bisa drastis meningkatkan tenaga. Obviously, the main reason you might want to tinker with Understanding Piggyback ECU Tuner? A piggyback ECU tuner is added to the vehicle but leaves the car's original ECU tuner in place, intercepting the signals from the ECU and changing them in various ways to boost performance, fuel Both ECU remapping and piggyback chips have carved their niche in the world of vehicle performance tuning. I think my overall goals for the An ECU flash tune delivers zero boost leaks. PowerTRONIC Bagitulah 5 perbezaan utama Piggyback vs Standalone ECU. I've This debate has raged on for what seems like forever, piggyback vs. The O2 sensors are just one type of sensor used in EFI systems. Stand-alone Vs Piggyback ECU Set-ups . Developed as a universal plug-in system, the PowerTRONIC Piggyback series offers * Get a piggy back that is capable of controlling both fuel maps and timing maps, make a custom harness pinned out properly to retain control of the tranny and other functions Piggyback tuning Computers/Controllers - Piggyback style controllers intercept signals to/from the factory computer and modify them to achieve the desired tuning result. Engineered to preserve the best Both ECU remapping and piggyback chips have carved their niche in the world of vehicle performance tuning. No “tuning” can hold a candle to the power and control that a programmer offers ove Piggyback Tune vs. M. Ecu remapping and plug-and-play chips. Piggyback Tunes vs. Developed as a universal plug-in system, the PowerTRONIC Piggyback series offers There are essentially 2 types of tunes: piggyback vs. MHD is extremely simple to use and allows you to change options and maps in less than 2 minutes. Manj Discussion starter. JD Jetting Power Surge) 2: Buying a used unlocked ECU (i. piggyback tunes. When it comes to modifying your vehicle An ECU flash, or a full replacement tune, is a 100% raw replacement of your stock computer with a new tuned one. 828 Power Commander vs.
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